...you made me optimistic about some aspect of A.I. which i didn't think was possible...you made me think that there is some future Beatle's song that might be as good as Octopus's Garden...and you have definitively made me crave and be horrified of the prospect of entering some sort of demonic robotic k-hole where a hybrid Beatles and Grateful Dead cover band is fronted by the derelict corpses of the Rock-Afire Explosion, playing an infinite symphony of destruction for my melting mortal mind...i am most nervous about what this means for the infinite Carrot Top request i put into GPT a few weeks ago...great read...the fake peppers is incredible...bravo...
Wow. I've thought some about A.I. and art and A.I. and writing, but not A.I. and music. I don't know much about musical composition or notation, so that may be why. This is extremely interesting and, as always from you, Michael, superbly written. I'll be giving this a second read and some more thought.
Thanks Mike. Still thinking about that Jason Silva video you sent me. All great art has been made through utilizing the latest tools available. We're still so early into AI tools, that we're probably focusing on the "everyone has access to cheap art" angle, instead of the "what might masters make with customized tools" angle. What will the minds like Beethoven, Van Gogh, or McCartney be empowered to make in the future that they couldn't make now?
One of my favourite things I've read about generative AI. Had a rule I'd hold off on Substack comments till I posted something myself, but now that I'm released from that self-imposed constraint.... this was my fav Beatles mashup back in high school:
This title may be my new favorite thing. And bless you for including all the other brainstormed options in your acknowledgments. I hope they make their way into some future fanfiction series--or better. They deserve attention atop something, in bold. And speaking of hope: the hope! the hope! and not in a "coked-up techno-optimism" way: "Imagine the sonic imagination of the Beatles unchained from the timbre of analog instruments. Imagine a guitar riff turning into a dog bark, and then into a plate smashing, and then back into a guitar, all within 3 seconds." This essay is deserving of all the reads.
You just inspired a Beatles-themed series on techno-futurism -- "I am actually the Walrus" could be a plea for why we shouldn't upload John's consciousness into a live walrus (even when that becomes technically possible).
For some animorph sounding riffs, check out Track 4 on the yellow album. It starts quite stable, devolves into chaos/noise, but in between you'll definitely hear some "unchained from analog instrument" moments.
This is next level Beatles fandom making me feel closer to 98th percentile (though tbh Wild Honey Pie isn't even the worst track on the White Album...it's Revolution 9). On purely aesthetic terms, there's a lot of uncanny valley going on here; there's an "undead" quality to some of the Jukebox tracks, of something being artificially reanimated like a dead frog with a car battery. I can see why your dad reacted the way he did. I think the other point that could be raised is that the fandom arises around shared experience (ie, collectively listening to the same albums over and over); and even in the case of the Grateful Dead, there's still a defined catalog of songs that fans adore with near-endless supply of versions (again, which are defined, shared, obsessed over on archive.org). More simply, it seems like fandom relies on shared experience of something precious, so to me there's a question of how that gets retained in this new era. How do you geek out with your friends in an environment of such overabundance? How do you share a moment with a stranger recognizing that random song that just came on at the bar? Within our lifetimes we'll likely see full generational turnover in Beatles fans and that shared experience can certainly evolve to something new and dynamic. I'm certainly not fighting the ooze, but I think the challenge will be finding shared meaning in such an overabundance of ooze. And this will somehow still coexist alongside people holding instruments in front of microphones and crowds, and maybe that will become all the more precious.
I actually think Revolution 9 is interesting. Wild Honey Pie is funnier than it is bad to me (it's the song that is the most radical departure from their perfectionist songwriting tendencies). My least favorite song on the White Album is probably Ob-La-Di Ob-La-Da.
Re: uncanny valley -- Jukebox isn't totally out of it. At it's best, I think it escapes the uncanny valley and feels like a legit demo. Other times, it dissolves into chaos. I actually forgot to include this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Znj0HuLc72I
The first 55 seconds work as a convincing love song (variant of If I Fell). Then on a high note, it sounds like Paul falls of a cliff and it goes insane. As creepy as it is funny.
For context, here are some "deep Beatles" generated in 2017. Check out track 3. This feels like the lower end of the valley (mostly noise, sometimes them, but overall uncomfortable).
I think technology will continue to push them out of the valley.
Another point on uncanny valley: worth bringing up the Mersey Beat era, where several bands tried to mimic the Beatles as close as possible during their rise. Check out this recording (yes, Billy Pepper and the Pepperbots were a real band recording the 60s, and of course they're roped into the Paul is Dead conspiracy.)
The music is tight and replicated, but the voices are off. Maybe Jukebox is the opposite, their voices are closer replicas than the best impersonators, but the songwriting is still in the uncanny valley.
Re: your grateful dead point -- in some cases people will bond over variants of a loved song, and in other cases the only constant will be the voice.
Finding shared meaning in ooze... that's the goal. In 2022 when my friends and I found these songs, we were sharing/curating links, talking about them, pointing out parts. I think we will lose macro-meaning (which has been happening since the 60s), but micro-meaning could be stronger (especially when you can quickly create insider songs that only your friends will get).
And solid point on AI music coexisting with traditional forms. Songwriters will fully never abandon the guitar or the piano. I used to be an architect, and even though I used 3D modeling software all the time, half my thought process happend in a sketchbook.
The Beatles was some of my first music memories. From beginning to end, I wonder about your 1% of the 1% brain, and how lucky I am to get to peek inside it! The essay is dense, informative, lusciously curious. I thought I was good at dissecting and dissassembling. But I just got a masterclass. All to say I enjoyed the essay. But also this:
Awesome that the Beatles had an early imprint on you. I'm sure I heard them through my youth, but I didn't really appreciate them until late high school. (Fun fact: for a long time my only and favorite Beatles song was "Mrs. Robinson," which I didn't find out for maybe a year that it was a Simon and Garfunkle song mislabeled on Limewire.)
I mostly wonder how music licensing evolves around AI and how that impacts the music labels. Also thinking about what role the big consumer apps (e.g., Spotify, Apple Music) play, and what opportunities emerge for building new consumer products.
Wow Mike. I finally had the chance to read and properly digest this. I remember you telling me about AI Beatles and how exciting you were by it, and how mystified I was. You captured the skepticism people like me have and gave very strong arguments as to why we may want to think about music in AI differently. I'm intrigued, bewildered, and curious. Also, your writing continues to grow in brightness, sharpness, and clarity.
...you made me optimistic about some aspect of A.I. which i didn't think was possible...you made me think that there is some future Beatle's song that might be as good as Octopus's Garden...and you have definitively made me crave and be horrified of the prospect of entering some sort of demonic robotic k-hole where a hybrid Beatles and Grateful Dead cover band is fronted by the derelict corpses of the Rock-Afire Explosion, playing an infinite symphony of destruction for my melting mortal mind...i am most nervous about what this means for the infinite Carrot Top request i put into GPT a few weeks ago...great read...the fake peppers is incredible...bravo...
Thanks again for helping me realize and double-down on the jam band angle. That was only 1-2 paragraphs in my draft from a week ago.
Rock-Afire Explosion Beatles: the existential musings of John and Paul if turned into animatronic bears.
Wow. I've thought some about A.I. and art and A.I. and writing, but not A.I. and music. I don't know much about musical composition or notation, so that may be why. This is extremely interesting and, as always from you, Michael, superbly written. I'll be giving this a second read and some more thought.
Thanks Mike. Still thinking about that Jason Silva video you sent me. All great art has been made through utilizing the latest tools available. We're still so early into AI tools, that we're probably focusing on the "everyone has access to cheap art" angle, instead of the "what might masters make with customized tools" angle. What will the minds like Beethoven, Van Gogh, or McCartney be empowered to make in the future that they couldn't make now?
Definitely!
One of my favourite things I've read about generative AI. Had a rule I'd hold off on Substack comments till I posted something myself, but now that I'm released from that self-imposed constraint.... this was my fav Beatles mashup back in high school:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Al2FVythB70
This title may be my new favorite thing. And bless you for including all the other brainstormed options in your acknowledgments. I hope they make their way into some future fanfiction series--or better. They deserve attention atop something, in bold. And speaking of hope: the hope! the hope! and not in a "coked-up techno-optimism" way: "Imagine the sonic imagination of the Beatles unchained from the timbre of analog instruments. Imagine a guitar riff turning into a dog bark, and then into a plate smashing, and then back into a guitar, all within 3 seconds." This essay is deserving of all the reads.
You just inspired a Beatles-themed series on techno-futurism -- "I am actually the Walrus" could be a plea for why we shouldn't upload John's consciousness into a live walrus (even when that becomes technically possible).
For some animorph sounding riffs, check out Track 4 on the yellow album. It starts quite stable, devolves into chaos/noise, but in between you'll definitely hear some "unchained from analog instrument" moments.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-w7KkJ6e7Lo
this turned out beautifully! intro felt way better at this length 👌 thank you for imagining & sharing such an insightful, eye-opening piece.
maybe the band *will* finish that performance, after all? ;-)
Thanks kora! I need to remember that an intro isn't a whole section, just 5% of the essay.
This is next level Beatles fandom making me feel closer to 98th percentile (though tbh Wild Honey Pie isn't even the worst track on the White Album...it's Revolution 9). On purely aesthetic terms, there's a lot of uncanny valley going on here; there's an "undead" quality to some of the Jukebox tracks, of something being artificially reanimated like a dead frog with a car battery. I can see why your dad reacted the way he did. I think the other point that could be raised is that the fandom arises around shared experience (ie, collectively listening to the same albums over and over); and even in the case of the Grateful Dead, there's still a defined catalog of songs that fans adore with near-endless supply of versions (again, which are defined, shared, obsessed over on archive.org). More simply, it seems like fandom relies on shared experience of something precious, so to me there's a question of how that gets retained in this new era. How do you geek out with your friends in an environment of such overabundance? How do you share a moment with a stranger recognizing that random song that just came on at the bar? Within our lifetimes we'll likely see full generational turnover in Beatles fans and that shared experience can certainly evolve to something new and dynamic. I'm certainly not fighting the ooze, but I think the challenge will be finding shared meaning in such an overabundance of ooze. And this will somehow still coexist alongside people holding instruments in front of microphones and crowds, and maybe that will become all the more precious.
Thanks for sharing David -- solid points.
I actually think Revolution 9 is interesting. Wild Honey Pie is funnier than it is bad to me (it's the song that is the most radical departure from their perfectionist songwriting tendencies). My least favorite song on the White Album is probably Ob-La-Di Ob-La-Da.
Re: uncanny valley -- Jukebox isn't totally out of it. At it's best, I think it escapes the uncanny valley and feels like a legit demo. Other times, it dissolves into chaos. I actually forgot to include this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Znj0HuLc72I
The first 55 seconds work as a convincing love song (variant of If I Fell). Then on a high note, it sounds like Paul falls of a cliff and it goes insane. As creepy as it is funny.
For context, here are some "deep Beatles" generated in 2017. Check out track 3. This feels like the lower end of the valley (mostly noise, sometimes them, but overall uncomfortable).
https://dadabots.bandcamp.com/album/deep-the-beatles
I think technology will continue to push them out of the valley.
Another point on uncanny valley: worth bringing up the Mersey Beat era, where several bands tried to mimic the Beatles as close as possible during their rise. Check out this recording (yes, Billy Pepper and the Pepperbots were a real band recording the 60s, and of course they're roped into the Paul is Dead conspiracy.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lV24PHpPNg
The music is tight and replicated, but the voices are off. Maybe Jukebox is the opposite, their voices are closer replicas than the best impersonators, but the songwriting is still in the uncanny valley.
Re: your grateful dead point -- in some cases people will bond over variants of a loved song, and in other cases the only constant will be the voice.
Finding shared meaning in ooze... that's the goal. In 2022 when my friends and I found these songs, we were sharing/curating links, talking about them, pointing out parts. I think we will lose macro-meaning (which has been happening since the 60s), but micro-meaning could be stronger (especially when you can quickly create insider songs that only your friends will get).
And solid point on AI music coexisting with traditional forms. Songwriters will fully never abandon the guitar or the piano. I used to be an architect, and even though I used 3D modeling software all the time, half my thought process happend in a sketchbook.
Just came across this...much closer to the “now and then” model but with much better results: https://youtu.be/pNHacpEKiH4?si=Y6YbuA-JM6oy6YTa
Thanks for sending this, David. Enjoyed the song at the end.
The Beatles was some of my first music memories. From beginning to end, I wonder about your 1% of the 1% brain, and how lucky I am to get to peek inside it! The essay is dense, informative, lusciously curious. I thought I was good at dissecting and dissassembling. But I just got a masterclass. All to say I enjoyed the essay. But also this:
"You are officially at the halfway point."
Awesome that the Beatles had an early imprint on you. I'm sure I heard them through my youth, but I didn't really appreciate them until late high school. (Fun fact: for a long time my only and favorite Beatles song was "Mrs. Robinson," which I didn't find out for maybe a year that it was a Simon and Garfunkle song mislabeled on Limewire.)
What do you mean by the halfway point?
I love how you quote a YouTube comment. Great content can come from anywhere
This is another topic we can talk about. One of my earliest posts here is AI x Marian iconography https://www.explorations.ph/p/after-501-years-we-can-finally-see
Lovely post, thank you!
I mostly wonder how music licensing evolves around AI and how that impacts the music labels. Also thinking about what role the big consumer apps (e.g., Spotify, Apple Music) play, and what opportunities emerge for building new consumer products.
Thanks again for writing a killer post.
Wow Mike. I finally had the chance to read and properly digest this. I remember you telling me about AI Beatles and how exciting you were by it, and how mystified I was. You captured the skepticism people like me have and gave very strong arguments as to why we may want to think about music in AI differently. I'm intrigued, bewildered, and curious. Also, your writing continues to grow in brightness, sharpness, and clarity.
(Standing ovation).